Aging wisely begins with the choices, attitudes, and relationships that help us stay purposeful, resilient, and engaged through life’s later transitions.

Scott Fisher, co-author and co-founder of The Aging Wisely Project joined me on the Get Ready Before Life Happens Podcast to talk about The Aging Wisely Project which draws on the life journeys of 52 elders between the ages of 70 and 96. 

We explored the five GRASP skills: Gratitude, Resilience, Active Practices, Self-Integrity, and Purpose and how these learnable habits can help people navigate transitions, cope with loss, and approach later life with greater confidence.

Key takeaways 

• Build optimism by recording three good things each day.
• Protect meaningful relationships and reduce isolation.
• Maintain physical and cognitive strength in ways that work for you.
• Plan how you will use your time and maintain purpose in retirement.
• Consider where you will live, what care you may need, and how you will pay for it.
• Discuss caregiving expectations with family members before care is needed.

Bottom Line: Aging wisely starts with asking how you want to live. Intentional planning can help us maintain purpose and adapt to change while also preparing the people who may one day step in.

 🎥 Watch this episode below: 

 

🎧 Listen to the podcast below or on your favorite podcast app. 

 

 

Connect with Scott Fisher: 

 

• The Aging Wisely Project Website: https://theagingwiselyproject.com

 

Books: 

 

• The Aging Wisely Project: Forging Your Best Self in Life’s Ultimate Stage by Scott Fisher and Ben Green (Amazon) 

 

 

Resources mentioned: 

 

• How to Create an Aging Plan That Works with Aging-in-Place Expert Carol Chiang on the Get Ready Before Life Happens Podcast (here)
• Retirement Is More Than Money with Andrea Maizes on the Get Ready Before Life Happens Podcast (here)
• (Eric) Erikson's Stages of Psychosocial Development - National Library of Medicine (here)
• Elder Identity Revision by Scott Fisher and Ben Green. National Library of Medicine overview

 

Bio: 

 Scott Fisher is an organizational consultant, human resources executive, researcher, and co-founder of the Aging Wisely Project. Over a 40-year career, he has advised organizations across healthcare, information services, natural resources, foundations, and nonprofit sectors on employee engagement, culture assessment, change management, strategic planning, executive coaching, and team development. Since 2018, Scott has worked with lifelong friend and co-author Dr. Ben Green to study the psychological dimensions of healthy aging, interviewing 52 elders and developing the Elder Identity Revision framework featured in their book, The Aging Wisely Project: Forging Your Best Self in Life’s Ultimate Stage. He currently serves as Chair of the Board of Trustees of Kavod Senior Living in Denver and has held numerous civic and community leadership roles. Scott holds a B.S. in Organizational Psychology and an M.A. in Organization & Management from Yale University.

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Transcript

 

Tony Steuer:
Aging wisely begins with the choices, attitudes, and relationships that help us stay purposeful, resilient, and engaged through life’s later transitions.

Welcome to Get Ready: Before Life Happens.

Today, I’m joined by Scott Fisher, co-creator of The Aging Wisely Project.

Scott, welcome to Get Ready: Before Life Happens.

Scott Fisher:
Thank you, Tony. Glad to be here.

Tony:
I’m excited to share what you’re doing with the audience.

What led you to create The Aging Wisely Project and publish the book?

Scott:
It’s been almost a nine-year journey.

My best friend, Ben Green, and I met during our first year of college. We were thrown together as roommates and stayed friends ever since.

One day, we were sitting around and realized we were in our late 60s. Retirement was creeping up on us, and old age was creeping up even faster.

Ben said:

“We ought to do something together.”

Ben is a psychiatrist and psychoanalyst, and my background is organizational psychology.

We decided it would serve us well to study how to grow old successfully.

After reading much of the literature on aging well, we said:

“Let’s go interview some older people.”

So over the next couple of years, including during the COVID pandemic, we interviewed elders and asked them to spend about two hours telling us their life stories.

We learned an enormous amount.

And we started seeing patterns in what seemed to help people age well, and what seemed to get in the way.

That eventually became the book.

Since then, the project has continued through research, presentations, and conversations about the challenges of aging wisely and the skills and attitudes that can help us do it well. Pasted text

Tony:
We’re an aging society, so this is a very timely conversation.

When you use the phrase “aging well,” what do you mean?

Scott:
We needed a framework.

So we looked at Erik Erikson’s model of psychosocial development.

Erikson described eight stages of life that people move through.

His view was that our development is shaped not only by what happens internally, but also by our genetics, our culture, our early caregivers, our relationships, and our life experiences.

The limitation of Erikson’s original model is that people in the 1940s and 1950s did not live as long or remain healthy for as long as many people do today.

His final stage essentially assumed that people reached their 60s or 70s and began bringing life to a close by reflecting on their journey and developing a sense of integrity.

But today, people may live into their 80s, 90s, or beyond.

So we asked:

What are people doing with all that additional time?

Especially when they remain relatively healthy.

We proposed a ninth developmental stage that we call Elder Identity Revision.

It focuses on two things.

First:

How do we adapt to the losses that accumulate as we age?

We may lose strength.

Hearing.

Sight.

Friends.

Loved ones.

Second:

How do we continue to maintain meaning and purpose while adapting to those changes?

That’s really what the book is about.

And from our research, we identified five attitudes and skills that seemed especially important.

We call them the GRASP habits:

Gratitude.
Resilience.
Active habits.
Self-acceptance.
Purpose.

Those five qualities were strongly associated with aging wisely in the people we interviewed. Pasted text

Tony:
What strikes me about those five is that work isn’t one of them.

A lot of our identity gets tied up in our careers.

And you rarely hear an older person say:

“I wish I’d gotten that promotion.”

What I also like is that these are things almost anyone can work on.

You don’t need to be wealthy.

You don’t need some special physical ability.

Scott:
Exactly.

And that was illuminating for us.

Take gratitude.

Ask yourself:

Are you naturally more optimistic or pessimistic?

Do you see the glass as half full or half empty?

There’s a lot of research suggesting that people who are more optimistic tend to be happier and healthier as they age.

And simple practices can help.

For example, keeping a gratitude journal.

At the end of the day, write down three things you’re grateful for.

They can be big things.

They can be small things.

The idea is to focus some attention on what is going well rather than only on what has been lost or what hurts.

That can shape the way we experience our lives.

Tony:
Do you think people are naturally wired to be optimists or pessimists?

Scott:
I’d probably say we’re born with preferences rather than being completely hardwired.

Some people naturally lean more optimistic.

Others lean more pessimistic.

But these are also skills that can be developed.

If someone is naturally pessimistic and begins spending a little more time focusing on gratitude, over time they may move the needle.

Maybe they don’t become a raging optimist.

But even a meaningful shift can help.

It can help people look forward to things.

It can help reduce the isolation and depression that sometimes become more common with age.

Tony:
Isolation is getting a lot of attention right now.

Would you consider it an important issue as people age?

Scott:
Absolutely.

And it affects decisions about where we live.

Many of us want to age in place.

I do too.

I want to stay in my own home as long as I reasonably can.

But aging in place can also create isolation.

We need to be aware of that.

I’ve also dealt with hearing loss for more than a decade.

I wear hearing aids.

They’re wonderful.

But they’re not magic.

When you stop hearing conversations clearly, it becomes easier to withdraw.

You may stop going out.

You may stop participating.

You may feel less connected.

So if you find yourself constantly asking people to repeat themselves, or feeling like you’re no longer part of the conversation, get your hearing checked.

Isolation can happen because of where you live.

It can happen because it feels too difficult to leave the house.

It can happen because hearing or other physical changes make socializing harder.

We have to work at staying engaged. Pasted text

Tony:
When you talk about social connection, does it need to be in person?

Can Zoom or another online connection be enough?

Scott:
Every person is different.

That’s one of the big lessons from our work.

There’s no magic answer.

Some people need face-to-face contact.

If that’s you, then you need to find ways to create it.

Play pickleball.

Play cards.

Join a Mahjong group.

Join a chess club.

Other people may get enough connection online much of the time.

The important thing is finding the right level of connection for you.

That’s one reason we didn’t want to write a book that said:

“Do these three things and you’ll be happy.”

There’s no magic wand for aging wisely.

You have to think.

You have to reflect.

You have to understand yourself.

You have to think about what life has taught you and what you need now.

Then you make decisions that help you stay engaged, physically and cognitively active, and connected to purpose.

Purpose looks different for everyone.

Some of the people we interviewed were in their 70s, 80s, or 90s and still starting organizations or working on big projects.

Others said:

“My purpose is spending time with my grandchildren.”

Or:

“My purpose is working in my garden.”

Or:

“I want to digitize my family photo albums so my children and grandchildren have them.”

It doesn’t matter what the purpose is.

What matters is having one. Pasted text

Tony:
That connects really well with financial planning.

You need to know where you want to go before deciding which tools you need.

People sometimes ask:

“Should I buy Bitcoin?”

But the better question is:

“What am I trying to accomplish, and does Bitcoin help me get there?”

The same thing applies to aging in place.

You can say:

“I want to stay in my home.”

But then the question becomes:

“What will I need in order to do that successfully?”

I recently had Carol Chiang on the podcast to talk specifically about aging in place.

She focused more on the physical preparation.

You’re talking about the psychological and social preparation.

Scott:
Exactly.

Our focus is psychological and social well-being.

And intentionality is a major part of that.

If you want to age in place, what does that mean?

How does it affect financial planning?

Do you need long-term care insurance?

Do you need to modify the house?

Could a basement eventually become living space for a caregiver?

What care-management resources might you need?

Especially if physical or cognitive challenges begin to emerge.

These are things worth thinking about before they become urgent.

Tony:
And one thing I hear repeatedly from guests is:

Your kids are not a caregiving plan.

People sometimes say:

“My kids will take care of me.”

That may not be realistic.

It can also put an enormous burden on them.

Scott:
Those conversations are really important.

Your children and grandchildren are at different stages of life.

They may be building careers.

Raising children.

Saving for college.

Trying to manage their own responsibilities.

And caregiving can create tremendous stress.

Sometimes the caregiver is under as much or more stress than the person receiving the care.

So we need to look at these situations consciously.

Children may help.

Other family members may help.

Partners are important.

But partners may also become ill or die.

We can’t predict exactly how things will unfold.

What we can do is recognize that these variables are in play and talk about them. Pasted text

Tony:
That communication piece is so important.

My Financial Readiness Plan includes an aging domain for exactly that reason.

It encourages people to write things down and have conversations so the family understands what may be needed.

Caregiving can be exhausting.

And it’s much harder when nobody knows what the plan is.

Scott:
Exactly.

There are also choices available today that previous generations didn’t have.

Depending on where someone lives, that may include things like medical aid in dying.

People need to understand what is legal where they live and think about what they want.

And they need to talk about those wishes with partners and family members.

We interviewed people who chose to use medical aid in dying.

Those situations were sad.

But in some cases, people were able to make an end-of-life decision that reflected their wishes and had the support of their families.

There are a lot of things worth discussing before the moment arrives.

Tony:
Advance directives fit into that too.

People often fill one out before surgery.

But the bigger issue is whether family members understand the wishes behind it.

Sometimes adult children say:

“That’s what Mom and Dad wrote, but I don’t think that’s what they really wanted.”

That can create conflict.

Scott:
Exactly.

And that’s why third-party support can sometimes help.

Hospice professionals.

Death doulas.

A trusted financial advisor.

Clergy.

Another family member who can act as a facilitator.

Families may have competing emotions and priorities.

Sometimes an outside person can help everyone stay focused on the wishes of the person at the center of the decision.

Ultimately, it comes back to communication. Pasted text

Tony:
Scott, let’s wrap up with the Get Ready Hot Take Trio.

What’s one myth about aging you’d like to break?

Scott:
One of the biggest is the idea that older people become irrelevant.

Our culture worships youth.

As we get older, we may start receiving messages that we no longer have much to contribute.

That simply isn’t true.

From my own experience and from interviewing many older adults, I’ve seen that people can continue contributing and finding meaning for as long as they’re alive.

As long as we’re breathing, we can have purpose.

And we also need to stop treating everyone over 60 as though they’re in the same stage of life.

Someone in their 60s may be very different from someone in their 80s or 90s.

The challenges shift as we age.

We need to recognize that.

Tony:
Absolutely.

It reminds me of George Burns.

He joked that he knew he was getting old when he stopped buying green bananas.

And yet he remained engaged incredibly late in life.

Let’s get out the time machine.

If you could go back knowing what you know now about aging and purpose, what advice would you give your younger self?

Scott:
I would have been much more proactive about planning the transition from work into retirement.

I thought I had planned for it.

But that first year after I stopped working full time at 65 was much harder than I expected.

It was stressful.

I had spent years thinking of myself as a producer and a money generator.

Then suddenly I had more freedom and more time.

That sounds wonderful.

But psychologically, it took adjustment.

I would have put more energy into thinking through that transition.

And I probably would have thought more carefully about the financial side of it too.

Tony:
That comes up a lot on this show.

Financially, you may be going from saver to spender.

Psychologically, you may be losing part of your identity.

When someone asks:

“What do you do?”

You may no longer have the same answer.

Scott:
Exactly.

Ben tells a story about a recently retired physician who had built much of his identity around being a doctor.

His title.

His office.

The respect.

The status.

When that suddenly disappeared, he struggled badly.

It affected his marriage.

It affected his behavior.

It took significant psychotherapy to help him through that transition.

That’s an extreme example, but it illustrates the point.

These transitions deserve thought and preparation.

Tony:
I recently had Andrea Maizes on the show to talk about that transition.

Her work, Your Next Edit, is about figuring out what comes after a major career.

And that’s really the same idea.

We can learn from other people.

But eventually we have to figure out what the next stage means for us.

Scott:
Exactly.

Other people can be useful models.

But each of us has to figure out how to age wisely in our own way.

That’s really what Ben and I tried to do with the book.

Give people questions and frameworks that help them think through that process.

People can find The Aging Wisely Project anywhere books are sold.

We also have a website at TheAgingWiselyProject.com.

There’s more information about the research, our work, and our monthly newsletter.

Tony:
Fantastic.

For everyone watching and listening, we’ll include those links in the show notes.

Scott, thanks for joining me on Get Ready: Before Life Happens.

Scott:
Thank you, Tony.

It’s been a pleasure.

I really enjoyed the conversation.

Tony:
I appreciate the insights.

You’ve given me a lot to think about, and I hope the same is true for everyone listening.

If you know somebody who would benefit from this conversation, please share it with them.

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