Frances Yong, Founder of White Byte and anti-scam evangelist joined me on this episode of The Get Ready Money Podcast in collaboration with the Better Money with the MAIA’s podcast. We talked about digital financial literacy, fraud prevention, and how communities can work together to create a safer and more inclusive digital world.

 

Key Takeaways

 

🔹 Reporting fraud quickly increases the chances of recovery

🔹 Digital financial literacy includes the ability to communicate and transact safely using technology

🔹 Scams can happen to anyone, regardless of age, background, or education

🔹 Seniors often engage with technology differently, which requires patience and understanding

🔹 Simple family check-ins can help spot red flags like unknown numbers or unfamiliar apps

🔹 Open, respectful conversations with parents and loved ones build awareness and trust

🔹 A safer digital ecosystem is a shared responsibility across families and communities

🔹 Digital literacy expands access to financial services and opportunities for marginalized groups

 

This conversation is a reminder that readiness today includes digital awareness, community support, and ongoing conversations that help everyone feel safer and more confident online.

 

 🎥 Watch this episode below: 

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🎧 Listen to the podcast below or on your favorite podcast app.

 

 

 

 

Connect with Frances Yong: 

 

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/frances-yong-074703a8/
• Whitebyte Website: https://www.whitebyte.org
• White Byte's LinkedIn page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/white-byte/?viewAsMember=true

 

Resources mentioned: 

 

• The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Scammers on the Get Ready Before Life Happens Podcast (watch or listen)

 

Bio:

 

Frances Yong was a Fraud Risk and Cybercrime Risk professional, globally responsible for the learning strategy and frameworks for a Fortune500 multi-national bank. When her mother was scammed off her pension in 2021, she left her banking job and founded White Byte.

 

Through White Byte, Frances promotes cyber integrity and digital inclusion; sharing her professional knowledge with a wider audience and in a customised manner to make it relatable to less savvy communities. Her vision is a cyber space that is ethical and inclusive for all users to interact and transact safely in.

 

Frances won the Anti-Scam category in the 2025 Money Awareness and Inclusion Awards (MAIA). She is named one of Singapore's 100 Women in Tech, and honoured as MAIA’s 50 Changemakers to watch. 

 

The Money Awareness and Inclusion Awards (the MAIAs) celebrate the increasingly important work being done to help people understand money better. Learn more: https://www.maiawards.org. 

 

👉 Start Your Financial Readiness Plan: A free, practical plan that helps you create your in-case-of-emergency Financial First Aid Kit, organize what matters, and prepare before life happens. Start Your Free Financial Readiness Plan  https://www.tonysteuer.com

 

👉 Support the Mission: Become a Get Ready Insider and receive access to the Get Ready Library while helping support my mission to help people prepare before life happens. Become a Get Ready Insider  https://www.tonysteuer.com/get-ready-insider

Episode Transcript

This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity.

Tony: Welcome to Get Ready: Before Life Happens. I’m your host, Tony Steuer.

Today, I’m joined by Frances Yong, founder of White Byte and an anti-scam advocate.

Frances, welcome to the podcast.

Frances: Thank you, Tony. Thanks for having me. I’m really honored to be here, and Happy New Year, everyone.

Tony: Thanks for being here, Frances. I’m excited and honored that you’re here.

Tell us a little bit about your origin story and how it led you to becoming an anti-scam advocate.

Frances: I wouldn’t necessarily call myself an anti-scam evangelist. I think that’s stretching it a bit.

I like to think that I am one, but I hope I live up to that reputation.

My background is in fraud and cybercrime risk. I used to do that professionally.

Then during COVID, so many things happened.

I live in Singapore, while my mother lives in Malaysia.

During the lockdown, she was all by herself.

She was very independent, mobile, agile, and able to manage herself.

She was 80 years old when a scammer called her, and she fell for it.

It was a lucky-draw scam.

She had worked until she was 74 because, as I said, she was active, lively, and very quick-minded.

Unfortunately, she fell for the scam and lost all of her savings at age 80.

The sad part, which made it even worse, was that we didn’t know about it.

During lockdown, all we could see was her forehead when we called her on FaceTime.

She thought we were looking at her, but because of how she positioned the phone, the camera was really only showing her forehead.

We didn’t pick up the subtle changes in what she was saying or in her behavior until the borders reopened about six to eight months later.

When I finally visited her, I realized she was different.

I brought her on a short holiday, and that was when we realized something was wrong.

Eventually, during one of her lucid moments, she told me, “I think I got scammed.”

That was when I found out the full story.

We had her evaluated, and we discovered that she had slipped into dementia.

That episode really weighed on me.

I kept asking myself: As a fraud and cybercrime risk professional, here I was devising frameworks and learning messages for the community, for customers, and for the bank I was working for at the time.

What was I doing?

I had overlooked the people closest to me.

That was when I decided this was what I had to do.

I wanted to stand up for people who are more vulnerable, marginalized, or have less access to digital knowledge and cyber-safety education.

That’s how White Byte was born.

Tony: Wow. That’s quite a story, and it’s so sad to hear.

Were you able to help your mother recover any of the money?

Frances: Unfortunately, no.

And I can understand why.

It had been a few months since the incident.

As a fraud professional, we know from investigations that the quicker you report something, the higher the chance that something can be done.

But remember, this was during lockdown.

At that time, organizations around the world were just beginning to work from home at scale.

Everyone was still trying to get their act together.

By the time the borders reopened, there had already been a significant delay.

The stolen money would have gone around the world three or four times over.

It could have been used, laundered, and moved in any number of ways.

There was very little chance of recovering anything.

The only thing I could do was make sure the bank was aware and the police were notified.

That was all I could do.

Tony: That is so hard.

From my own work with regulators, I know that when a lot of time has passed, it becomes much harder.

You also mentioned the money moving around the world very quickly.

From what I understand, fraud is truly global.

It probably wasn’t simply one person locally.

Can you explain a little bit about the scale of how this works?

Frances: When we’re talking about financial crime, I don’t believe it is ever just one crime.

It usually starts with something, and then it continues into something else.

Why are criminals involved in financial crime?

Sadly, I now call it an industry because it really is an economy of its own.

A lot of the time, the motivation is not simply to get more money.

It’s to get more money to fund something else.

The end goal may be more crime.

The money may fund illegal drug trafficking.

It may fund human trafficking.

People may be trafficked into working in scam centers or casinos.

They may be forced into other criminal activity.

So the money can move through and support many different parts of a larger network.

It becomes an entire ecosystem of crime.

Tony: That’s scary to think about.

It isn’t just one person.

These can be organized operations.

They have playbooks.

Unfortunately, they put a lot of thought and resources into this.

For people watching and listening, you may have heard my recent episode on the habits of highly effective scammers, where we talked about some of these same issues.

Let’s back up for a minute and talk about digital literacy.

What is digital literacy?

Frances: Let me start with the textbook definition because I prepared this.

Digital literacy is the ability to find, evaluate, create, and communicate information using digital technologies.

That’s already a lot.

But for me, that definition is still missing something crucial.

Digital literacy is the ability to find, evaluate, create, and communicate information using digital technologies responsibly and safely.

That’s what digital literacy is really about.

Think about learning how to drive.

You don’t just learn how to use a car.

You learn how to use it responsibly and safely.

You learn how to indicate before you turn.

You learn how to slow down when you approach a red light.

You learn how to assess situations.

It’s about using a technology responsibly and safely in a way that helps protect yourself and the people around you.

Digital literacy has to include that component.

Tony: I think that’s important.

We’ve unleashed all this technology, fintech platforms, apps, and digital tools.

People may understand how to get started and how to do certain things, but they don’t necessarily understand all the risks.

In the United States, for example, Venmo is a popular way to send money.

Once money has been sent from one account to another, it may be very difficult or impossible to get back.

A lot of people don’t fully understand that.

Let’s talk a little bit about White Byte.

How does White Byte help adults support their aging parents?

Frances: Because my mother was scammed and her experience was the reason White Byte started, I initially focused on seniors.

As I started teaching them, I realized that was only half of the equation.

I could keep telling seniors, “This is what you should do. This is what you should avoid.”

But they are different from us and different from their adult children.

They need support.

Very often, I propose to organizations that I deliver a lunch-and-learn.

They can choose either a parenting talk or a talk for adults who are supporting and caregiving for aging parents.

These workshops help adults in the sandwich generation, whether they have children, aging parents, or both.

The first thing they need to realize is that their parents come from a different generation.

The way they interact with technology is different.

For example, parents pick up the phone because that’s the generation they grew up in.

When the phone rang, you picked it up.

They didn’t grow up with mobile phones or caller ID.

If the phone rings, it may drive them crazy not to answer.

So for us to keep saying, “Stop picking up numbers you don’t recognize,” may not work.

They may have 40, 50, or 60 years of learned behavior telling them to answer the phone.

Instead of simply telling them not to pick it up, teach them what to do if they do answer.

One thing I suggest is: don’t speak first.

Wait for the other person to say something.

If they open with something suspicious like, “Guess who this is,” or ask questions designed to make you identify someone for them, just hang up.

We don’t have time to play guessing games.

Another thing adults can do is periodically go through their parents’ phones with their permission.

Make it a bonding moment.

You can say, “Mom, Dad, I think it’s been a while. Can I take a look at your phone and make sure all the security updates are done?”

Sit with them.

Check for updates.

Then go through the phone contacts.

Are there numbers with no names attached?

Ask, “Who is this?”

Older generations may actually remember phone numbers better than younger generations because that’s how they grew up.

They may say, “Oh, that’s Auntie Mildred.”

Then save Auntie Mildred’s name with the number.

The next thing is to go through the apps.

I do this with my mother every other month.

Every time I wonder, “Why do you have four pages of apps?”

My mother doesn’t work.

She has dementia.

She doesn’t even play games.

Yet somehow there are all these apps.

Sometimes people click on links or messages and don’t realize what is being installed or changed.

So go through the phone, remove things they don’t need, and make sure privacy and security settings are up to date.

Again, make this a bonding experience rather than a teaching moment.

You can say, “What is this? Do you use it?”

If they say they need it, ask why.

You may even learn that they’re more digitally savvy than you thought.

The key is to make it collaborative.

Tony: Those are fantastic tips.

Something that has come up in other conversations is that parents are going to pick up the phone.

They’re going to talk to strangers.

It’s funny because at a certain point, we become our parents.

They told us not to talk to strangers when we were little, and now we’re telling them not to talk to strangers.

Sometimes they’re lonely.

Sometimes there may be some cognitive decline.

I had another guest who does research in this area and talked about cognitive changes that can happen as people age.

When you combine that with scam risk, is the answer really to monitor and stay involved as much as possible?

Frances: It’s really about monitoring.

One thing I remind my mother about is something she already understands: stranger danger.

I say, “Stranger danger. Don’t know the number? Don’t answer.”

That is language she understands.

Wherever you are and whichever country you’re listening from, think about what your parents remember.

What did they teach you when you were a child?

Use some of that advice back with them, respectfully.

Don’t say, “Remember when you used to tell me this?”

Just make it simple.

“Stranger danger. Don’t know the number? Don’t answer.”

It has a rhythm to it.

During your bonding time, ask about who they spoke with that day.

“Did Flora call you?”

That’s my sister.

“Did Auntie Mary call you?”

“Who else called?”

“Who did you speak with?”

When people become comfortable with these conversations, even when there is some cognitive decline, these prompts can sometimes help them remember what happened.

Of course, this is more workable in earlier stages.

But you may hear something like, “Yes, I spoke with Auntie Mary. She said she had fallen on hard times and little Joe isn’t doing well, so she asked me for money.”

That’s when your alarm bells should go off.

Auntie Mary might not actually be Auntie Mary.

Call Auntie Mary yourself.

Ask whether Joe really is having problems.

If the story isn’t true, call the bank.

If a transaction is still pending, see whether it can be stopped.

If it has already gone through, determine what happened and then help your parent understand the experience so they can be more cautious next time.

Tony: One of the tips Kathy Sikorski, one of my guests on another episode, suggested was putting a note near the telephone reminding parents that if anything involving money comes up, they should call their trusted person first.

In your mother’s case, that might be you or your sister Flora.

Another thing families can sometimes do is monitor accounts.

For my wife’s mom, for example, my wife and her sister are able to keep an eye on the accounts so they can see if there is unusual movement.

That can be helpful because sometimes people don’t realize what has happened until money is already gone.

Frances: I think that works in certain jurisdictions and not in others.

In Singapore, joint accounts can work well.

In Malaysia, there are more restrictions around certain types of accounts.

So people need to understand the rules where they live.

The note near the phone is also useful, although it depends on how advanced someone’s cognitive decline is.

In the last three years, my mother has forgotten how to use the phone in many ways.

She can still check WhatsApp messages, but she may not know how to call me.

She doesn’t always remember how to type a response anymore.

So a note may not work for her now.

But in earlier stages, it can absolutely be helpful.

If you’re putting a reminder near the phone, make sure it’s secure and easy to see.

Those are great tips.

I appreciate them.

Tony: Before we start to wrap up, let’s talk about how we can build a safer and more inclusive cyber ecosystem.

Frances: It definitely requires a whole-society approach.

When I was growing up, there was something called the Neighborhood Watch.

You had volunteers in the neighborhood.

They looked out for people.

They did patrols and helped keep the community safe.

How do we replicate that online?

We need to look out for one another.

When I speak with parents, I tell them, “You’re all here together. This is a networking opportunity.”

Share tips with one another.

What has worked for you with your children?

What hasn’t?

What risks or challenging behaviors have you observed?

People can learn from one another.

Teach your community.

Volunteer.

Be part of community networks.

Look out for older adults.

Maybe a neighborhood or senior center could set up a small kiosk once a month.

Have seniors come in.

Sit down with them.

Help them make sure their phone security updates are done.

Remove unwanted apps.

Their adult children may live across the country or even in another country and may not be able to help.

That’s something a community can do.

Tony: That’s a great idea.

It actually makes me think I should contact my local senior center and volunteer to do a presentation on scam awareness.

Something else you said is important.

If older adults are talking with other seniors, they may open up in a very different way than they do with their children.

They’re talking with peers.

There can also be a lot of shame around admitting to your children that you feel vulnerable.

Something I’ve heard from people who work with multigenerational families is that adult children sometimes need to open up first.

Talk about their own situation.

That can make parents more comfortable than simply grilling them.

That’s why your idea of making it a bonding experience rather than an interrogation is so useful.

I’d encourage anybody who has expertise in this area to consider volunteering in their local community.

The last question before the Hot Take Trio is: How can digital literacy itself help marginalized communities?

Frances: I’m excited about digitalization because it has given us a lot of convenience and many benefits.

In marginalized communities, I don’t think everyone is able to fully take advantage of the opportunities available to them.

When people become more digitally savvy, they can access more of those opportunities.

Think about banking.

Digitalization has reduced some of the cost and inconvenience of having a bank account.

People may not need to pay bus fare, travel for two hours, wait in a bank queue, and spend half a day just to complete a simple transaction.

That can make access easier.

The second opportunity is jobs.

A lot of people say digitalization has put people out of jobs.

To some extent, it has.

But it has also opened up opportunities.

Jobs can now be gig work, fractional projects, or remote work.

A job doesn’t necessarily mean going into an office or a physical building.

Work can happen from almost anywhere.

Platforms like Fiverr were breakthroughs because they allowed people to offer skills and services globally.

Content creation has also become work for many people.

Digitalization creates opportunities.

It depends on how we interpret those opportunities and whether we know how to find them.

I have a story that illustrates this.

I was invited to conduct a workshop in Vietnam and decided to stay for an extra half day.

I booked myself onto a tour.

During the tour, I met a young couple from Myanmar.

Myanmar has been going through conflict, and coming from Singapore, I had momentarily forgotten how serious their situation was.

We sat down for dinner with the other people on the tour.

I asked everyone where they were going next.

When I asked this couple whether they were going home after the trip, they said, “We can’t go home.”

I asked why.

They told me, “We’re exiled. We can’t go home because our country is at war.”

I was speechless.

They were 25 and 27 years old.

I asked them, “How do you fund your travels?”

They said, “We work while we’re on the road.”

I had noticed they were constantly on their phones while we were moving from one place to another.

They opened their bag and showed me.

It wasn’t one or two mobile phones.

It was a bag full of phones.

They used those phones to manage clients from around the world.

They were digital platform creators and digital content creators.

That’s what allowed them to keep working while they moved from place to place.

Digitalization can open opportunities.

It comes down to how you interpret them and how you find them.

Tony: I love that.

It opens opportunities.

Things are changing.

Some of that change is good and some of it is bad.

That’s how change works.

We’re in an age of disruption, especially with AI.

The challenge is learning how to recognize opportunities while avoiding the pitfalls.

Easy to say, right?

Frances: Exactly.

That’s why you need to keep making these shows, Tony.

Tony: And it’s people like you who are out there making a difference with organizations like White Byte.

Frances, to wrap up, I have what I call the Get Ready Hot Take Trio.

These are three quick questions I ask all of my guests.

The first one is: What’s one myth about scams that you’re trying to break?

Frances: The myth is that scams only happen to vulnerable people.

We all have biases about who we think “vulnerable people” are.

But we are all vulnerable in different ways.

Scams do not discriminate.

There’s another important point too.

Not every person carrying out a scam is necessarily acting freely.

Some people are themselves victims who have been trafficked, coerced, or forced into scam operations.

So while we should absolutely recognize the harm scammers cause, we also need to understand that organized crime can involve victims on multiple sides.

Tony: That gets back to what you were saying earlier about the larger criminal ecosystem.

As I understand it, there are criminal organizations where people are held and forced to participate in scams.

That’s another reminder that this is much larger than one person sitting somewhere sending messages.

Frances, let’s get out the time machine.

If you could go back in time, knowing what you know now about scams, what advice would you give your younger self?

Frances: I would tell myself to check in on my elderly relatives.

I wouldn’t want what happened to my mother to happen again.

If I had done more of what we’ve talked about today, having regular conversations, checking in, going through the phone, perhaps I could have prevented what happened to her.

That’s what I would tell my younger self.

Tony: It’s always a learning process.

To wrap up, what is your number one tip to help people change the way they think about scams or money in general?

Frances: Watch your biases.

Scams do not discriminate by age, intelligence, or gender.

We are all vulnerable.

Scams happen to CEOs.

They happen to professors.

They happen to young people and older people.

In Singapore, statistics have shown that a large percentage of scam victims are not elderly.

So we need to rethink what we mean by “vulnerable.”

Stay vigilant.

Stop and look for red flags.

Do a self-check of your own intentions and emotions before releasing any money.

Tony: I love that.

We tend to think scams are something that happens to somebody else.

But all of us can be targeted, and many of us are being targeted.

The important thing is whether we’re tuned into the red flags.

If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Some of those old sayings are still pretty accurate.

Frances: Exactly.

Tony: Frances, where can people learn more about you and White Byte?

Frances: You can find White Byte at WhiteByte.org.

White as in the color white, W-H-I-T-E, and Byte, B-Y-T-E.

Tony: Fantastic.

For everybody watching and listening, if you have access to the show notes, there will be a link to the White Byte website.

Frances, thanks for joining us on Get Ready: Before Life Happens.

Frances: Thank you, Tony. It’s been my pleasure.

Tony: And thank you, everyone, as always, for tuning in to this episode.

If you learned something today that changed the way you think about scams and money, please be sure to subscribe and share this episode with a friend.

You can also go to my website at TonySteuer.com and join the Get Ready Movement to get access to my free resources and subscribe to my newsletter.

Until next time, let’s change the way we think about money.